THE THREE with Amanda Montell

An interview, a photo story, and Pop-Up Questions

Purchase CULTISH here

Amanda Montell is a writer and podcast host from Baltimore. She is the author of two critically acclaimed books: Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism (HarperWave 2021) and Wordslut: A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language (HarperWave 2019). She is also the creator and co-host of the hit podcast, Sounds Like A Cult, which peaked on Spotify's Top 20 list of the most popular podcasts in the USA and was named one of the best podcasts of the year by Wired Magazine. Amanda's books have earned praise from The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, Kirkus Reviews, and more. Cultish became an indie bestseller, was named one of the best books of 2021 by NPR, and was a Goodreads Choice Awards top 5 finalist. Amanda is currently working on her third book, THE AGE OF MAGICAL OVERTHINKING: Notes on Modern Irrationality (OneSignal 2024). Her other writing has appeared in Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan, DAME Magazine, and The Rumpus, among others. Amanda holds a degree in linguistics from NYU and lives in Los Angeles with her partner, plants, and pets. Find her on Instagram @amanda_montell.

Pop-Up Questions

The writer picks five out of ten pop-up questions.

What writer romanticized being a writer for you as a young person?

David Sedaris. His live shows absolutely enraptured me. His humor, his charisma. He seemed larger than life. Like a literary rockstar.

How has technology been a part of your writing?

I am a Google Docs queen. I have a chaotically organized file system when I write my books: digital chapters, sources, interviews, research, and scratch paper. Sometimes in a pinch I even write in my iPhone notes. Speaking of romance, I’d love to be a more analog writer. But I’m a child of the 2000s. I just can’t quit how streamlined the cloud makes everything. (I swear this is not a google docs ad.)

What music do you love on road trips?

Wistful electronic pop. Sylvan Esso is my religion.

What is your favorite bit of writer lore or (not harmful) gossip?

That Sylvia Plath loved Revlon’s Cherries in the Snow lipstick.

What books comfort you?

Every time I visit my parents, I crack open my old middle school copy of Chicken Soup for the Pre-Teen’s Soul. Doesn’t get more comforting than that.

Photo Roll Story

The writer picks a photo from her phone and tells us about it.

I recently turned 30 and had a 90s rom-com-themed house party rager. Coming out of the omicron wave of the pandemic, the party just felt like a giant gasp of hope. I dressed up as Cher from Clueless, and this was my incredible cake from my favorite LA bakery, Just What I Kneaded. I can’t help but grin ear-to-ear when I look at it! -Amanda Montell

The Interview

The writer answers questions about her life and work.

Your latest book, CULTISH, introduces readers to the modern world of cults both large and small, relatively harmless and decidedly dangerous. You argue that the surge of cults and cultish groups in the US is a direct result of people looking for the structure and guidance that religion used to give. Jia Tolentino wrote in her book of essays, TRICK MIRROR, about the ways that social media has harmed women, specifically, with filters, false advertising in both lifestyle and looks, the 'false gods' of some ideal beauty and body and lifestyle. How do you see this intersection of cultish language and tactics and social media affecting women right now, and do you think the movement toward no filter and real-life mental health posts can change the direction of these powerful spaces?

Generally speaking, we give people the power we think they deserve and expect them to have, so while followers might trust a middle-aged white man by default when he speaks with confidence about god and government, they might more willingly follow a woman speaking about wellness or mental health or love or beauty. As much as conversations surrounding mental health are becoming less stigmatized, which is a positive thing, I think there are plenty of therapy "influencers" who are more than willing to capitalize on the ongoing mental health crisis, using language like "trauma" and "boundaries" in an absolutist way, not to help people but rather to build their own "cult" platform online. I can think of multiple Instagram mental health accounts that marry the technical language of the DSM with spiritual language (talk of the "Mother Wound," "PTSD," "paradigm shifts," and "gaslighting" all in the same sentence), presenting it in the form of aesthetically pleasing quotegrams, to appeal to the vulnerabilities of women seeking mental health counsel while suggesting that they are tapped into a transcendent wisdom higher than science. Of course not everyone having mental health conversations on social media is exploiting others in this way, but it's certainly something to look out for.

What are the best examples you've seen of people finding healthy communities to be a part of that are not cultish? Does having slogans and specific language automatically make a group cultish?

In my view, just because something is "cultish" doesn't mean it's necessarily destructive. That's why I often talk about the subjectivity and fluidness of the word "cult" and refer to these groups as existing along a cultish spectrum, from groups as destructive as NXIVM to those as (mostly) harmless as hardcore Game of Thrones fans, Trader Joe's lovers, and Peloton riders. Exclusive language and slogans can help bond members of a group, create a sense of solidarity and belonging, and assemble people around a collective mission that's larger than themselves—certainly sometimes that works for ill, but sometimes it largely works for good. Either way, according to my interpretation, I find the language "cultish."

What would you like to see change in American social structure to make us less cultish and more connected?

Among many other factors and systems, I blame algorithms for much of the extremism and ideological divides we're seeing right now; algorithms, after all, just encourage us to believe more and more radical versions of what we already do and separate us from our humanity. It sounds simple, but remaining connected to a variety of in-person communities consisting of members who don't fully agree with you or share the same collective vocabulary is important for staying connected to a sense of shared humanity. I once spoke to a scholar of conspiracy theories and antivaxx ideology, who lives in an extremely conservative area of Staten Island and breaks bread with neighbors who believe in and support many of the harmful ideas she's trying to dismantle. Doing so helps her maintain a sense of empathy and allows her to have truly productive dialogues with these folks instead of dehumanizing and further alienating them. 

CULTISH obviously required quite a bit of research. How did set about organizing what research needed to be done and how to go about doing it?

My research began with identifying the categories of "cults" I wanted to cover (in the end, it was suicide cults, religious cults, multi-level marketing "cults," cult fitness, and then "cult-followed" social media figures); then, I interviewed almost 70 sources—from psychologists and religious studies scholars to Heaven's Gate survivors to die-hard SoulCyclers—to construct my argument that language is a cult leader's most powerful tool of influence, and here's how it shows up in cult-like groups across this wide spectrum.

How do you see the debate of masks versus no masks or vaccinated versus not fitting in with a cultish point of view?

So often cults aren't about the beliefs themselves, they're about assembling around a figure or belief system that gives us a sense of community, closure, and salvation during uncertain times. I think that's why approaches to public health continue to prove themselves a political issue decade after decade—because we're dividing ourselves into ideological tribes as a way to cope with the chaos.

What's next for your writing?

I am delightedly working on a new book for OneSignal, an imprint of Atria at Simon & Schuster, called The Age of Magical Overthinking: Notes on Modern Irrationality. It actually expands on some of the ideas I started thinking about during cultish—combining cultural criticism with social science and personal narratives, the book explores how our cognitive biases show up in the information age and how we can embrace the joys and combat the follies of these necessary delusions. Currently in the thick of writing my first draft and terribly grateful that I get to continue to write books about topics I find irresistibly fascinating!